Comments on: Proud to be white??

By: Caitlin

Caitlin — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:54:30 +0000

Thank-you for the apology, Jake

By: Jacob Ward

Jacob Ward — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:36:03 +0000

I wasn’t by any means suggesting the comments were beyond you intellectually, just that you missed the point being made. Everyone at times misses the point. I may disagree with some of your views, but I have a tremendous respect for your intellect, and I would not dream of criticising it.
I apologise profusely for the offence caused by your reading of my comment, and for the tone, if not the content, of previous comments. I shall endeavour henceforth to hold my tongue.

By: Caitlin

Caitlin — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:41:18 +0000

Jake. I agreed with a lot of what you said in your comment, but you managed to turn it into a personal insult with your final sentence. I’m very glad if it wasn’t intended as an insult, but it felt rude and offensive to me, and others who read it agreed. To be honest, I’m not going to just write off how it makes me feel because you didn’t think it would bother me.

I love that you tell me off for being patronising when you initially pretty much suggested that the intellectual comments being made in that email were clearly beyond me. Regardless – I apologise if it seemed patronising, I’ve just had a long period of having to defend my views at uni and it’s resulted in having to take everything back to basics to explain to people. I realise, reading back, that it could be seen as condescending and for that I am, genuinely, sorry (to Cerys, of course – I would never deliberately offend her). That said, my statement holds true – they seem obvious issues to me, issues of basic human rights. Whether they are abroad or closer to home, they are relevant. There IS a rights issue in the UK, and the examples I gave are relevant – the right to safety on the streets, the right to equal treatment, hell the right to be treated like a rational human being.

And yes, I was insulting towards you. Because I do not have to put up with people being patronising and rude to me, and they are not worth my time. Really, it’s nothing personal, it’s just a way of protecting myself from unnecessary distress and from wasting my time. Which I am aware I am doing now, and which I will return to avoiding in future.

By: Jacob Ward

Jacob Ward — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:46:32 +0000

My last sentence was not intended as an insult in any way; it was merely an observation – I think you did miss the point, and my comment was an attempt to help you see this. Besides, were it an insult, it would be a lesser one than those included within your reply – me not being worth your time, your condescending manner when replying to Cerys. She’s not a child; don’t speak to her as if she is one. On the whole I can’t help feeling that had I not written that last sentence you’d have made up another reason not to reply.
Your reply to Cerys had nothing to do with what she said. She was questioning the implication inherent in your assertions ‘white men (and white people generally) automatically have those rights in our society.’ and ‘We have all the rights. Well, white men do.’ that women have fewer non-legislative rights than men in our society. She at no point questioned the problems rife in other countries. Your following points do not have much to do with rights.

By: Caitlin

Caitlin — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:29:43 +0000

Jake – if you hadn’t put that last sentence, I would bother with you. As you did, you are not worth my time.

Cerys – have you considered the fact that women in other countries might not be as privileged as us? Some aren’t allowed to vote, to drive, to choose who they will marry, to have control of their reproductive rights, to go out alone (rather than with a male relative), to have a job – need I go on? Even in this country, women are, on the whole, paid less than men. Health issues that only affect women are less researched. The rape conviction rate in this country is the lowest in Europe. Again – need I go on? If that doesn’t cover it, read The F-Word and other feminist blogs, do some research and hopefully it’ll become clearer

By: Cerys

Cerys — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 21:33:53 +0000

The guy that first put that email together and sent it out?
Racist fuckwit. Like you said, if all you have to be proud of is the colour of your skin (or your gender, your sexuality, etc) then you probably have a very sad, empty life.

However, I think that Mr Richards had a good point – which is that “reverse discrimination” is still discrimination. I don’t understand what makes it OK, and that’s all I’m going to say because I’m not alowed to talk about reverse discrimination since I almost hit my politics teacher over it.

Oh, any I wanted to ask – what rights do men have that women don’t? (seriously, cuz if that’s true I might have to beat Jake up on principal

By: Jacob Ward

Jacob Ward — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:03:20 +0000

I know my opinion doesn’t count for much round here but here goes.
White working class boys are, according to countless recent governmental reports, the demographic doing worst in education in this country – they achieve the lowest grades and a disproportionately small number go to university. Therefore, it would, with what you said, be acceptable to set up schools specifically for this disadvantaged group – to help them achieve better grades and get more to university. However, were such a school established then it would be branded racist. That is what I think he’s getting at.
In my own opinion all such institutions are wrong. Working class white boys don’t need their own schools, and neither do black people. They need better mixed schools instead and efforts to change the social attitudes which mean they fall behind. Segregation is just ignoring the problem. The same goes for history – instead of having the concepts of ‘normal history’ and ‘black history’, and indeed ‘women’s history’, it would be far more productive to see it all as just history, as it is here. It’s just as legitimate to study the history of the African race as to study the Tudors, and I’m happy to say I’ve not come across this discriminatory nomenclature thus far on my course.
More generally I think it’s just as legitimate to be proud to be white as to be proud to be black. Personally I don’t give a toss about the colour of my skin, but if I did I would be somewhat disgruntled that I could not express this but my black friends could.
So yeah I think you missed the point of what he was saying.

By: Caitlin

Caitlin — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 23:25:03 +0000

As do I…

Unless that was aimed at me?

*has confused self*

By: ubuntucat

ubuntucat — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 16:37:54 +0000

Sounds as if some people need to read a little Peggy McIntosh and Noel Ignatiev.